1.9.0: live game

Post by **gyboth** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:58 pm

here's a little foretaste of the new live game (i forgot to capture the window border, so it looks a bit weird). the interface is still a bit simple of course (e.g. i'd like to show some icons between the minute and comment columns, see this post), but the important thing is, it's really live (contrary to the live game in 1.7), ie. the events are generated and shown in real time.

the word 'general' in some comments just means it's a normal live game action, nothing interesting happening. the blue ball next to blackburn indicates ball possession.

criticism, suggestions welcome. but bear in mind that the comments are written by me, and i didn't try hard because i expect others (mainly vector

) to write the english comments. i only inserted them to know what's happening so that i can debug better.

as i don't have cvs access with linux right now, the 1.9 cvs version doesn't have this feature yet. i'm going to update the cvs in a few days.

gyözö

p.s.: vector, didn't you want to know how screenshots can be made with linux? it's the 'import' command line command of the imagemagick package.

vector · Post by **vector** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:26 am

but bear in mind that the comments are written by me, and i didn't try hard because i expect others (mainly vector Wink) to write the english comments

yep sure can you send me a copy of your current comments file. so I can see what the format is?

Is it as simple as you fill in the %s ?
FILE
<general>
scoring chance by %s
long pass from %s to %s
</general>
<power>
%s looses ball to %s
</power>
<goal>
what a strike! %s ran the ball thru 3 defenders and slamed tha ball into the top right corner.
</goal>
<foul>
%s makes a delibrate trip on %. gets yellow card
</foul>

OUTPUT
general: scoring chance by Fredi
general: long pass from Tim to James
power: David looses ball to Peiri
GOAL: what a strike! Silvien ran the ball thru 3 defenders and slamed the ball into the top right corner.
foul:Denni makes a delibrate trip on Andreuas. gets yellow card

I guess we will need to decide on how many and what "subjects elements" we want?

Post by **gyboth** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:34 pm

it'd be best to have some xml file or so for the comments, because that'd be the most flexible. on the other hand, comments should be gettextizable, and i'm not sure how to do that except in source files. so let's just wait a bit until i find out which way we'll do it. i'm not sure when i can do it, though, because i wanted to do some 1.7 debugging this week.

gyözö

vector · Post by **vector** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:22 am

hmm it lost my post
anyway I have twikied some info as I find it much easier to "typethink" and rearrange thoughts on the twiki
http://mec-symonds.eng.monash.edu.au/cg ... mentary190
this is not an indication of how deep Id like it to go just an indication of what i was thinking as I made the commentary file. there are some pitfalls. Seeing it in depth will show us what to avoid.

by all means post comments here I use the twiki mainly for points and structure. and reference.

tis ok it worked this time.
this would probably be moved from live game to topic on its own?

vector · Post by **vector** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:28 am

btw I like the new look live window.
Im not sure if adding icons in here will look good tho?
may get too repetitive?
I guess we will try and see.
thanks for the screenshot tip

GeoVah · Post by **GeoVah** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:33 am

vector wrote:btw I like the new look live window.
Im not sure if adding icons in here will look good tho?

Humm, Maybe icon for red/yellow card, goal and injury ?
What do you think about something like this :
http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/fo/matchtrac ... 10665.html
- Warning : it's in french

Post by **gyboth** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:45 am

GeoVah wrote:
vector wrote:btw I like the new look live window.
Im not sure if adding icons in here will look good tho?
Humm, Maybe icon for red/yellow card, goal and injury ?
What do you think about something like this :
http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/fo/matchtrac ... 10665.html

yes, exactly what i had in mind. i didn't mean to add additional buttons (maybe this is what vector thought) but pixmaps for the events during the game: shots, goals, cards etc. but the icons on that site look a bit small to me.

gyözö

Post by **gyboth** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:40 pm

vector wrote:http://mec-symonds.eng.monash.edu.au/cg ... mentary190

most of it makes a lot of sense. but i have to admit that the commentary discussion is too early at this time (of course it's also my fault

i should've told you that it has minor priority right now). much more important is to make the live game, or more precisely, the new match calculation engine, work well. 'cause currently it isn't

the results aren't plausible

i've cvs-ed my current 1.9 version. the most important part of the code (currently) is in the 'live_game*' files; at the beginning of 'live_game.c' there are a lot of constants that determine how live games are played; i hope that tweaking those will make the engine more realistic and the results more plausible.

to try the whole thing out, start the game and press the new week button (nothing else works yet, except for the quit button). you'll see your league game this week; in the console, there'll be some stats about all games played in your league. in the live game window there's a spinbutton for the live game speed; you can also change it in the conf file in 'support_files'.

we're going to do the commentary stuff once the calculation works well and we know exactly what kind of events there are in a live game.

this would probably be moved from live game to topic on its own?

erm.. this is a topic exclusively for the live game. or do you mean to make a new forum?

gyözö

vector · Post by **vector** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:05 am

but i have to admit that the commentary discussion is too early at this time

ohh good it sounded like you were in need of it which is why I suddenly jumped. didnt want you waiting on me

Quote:
this would probably be moved from live game to topic on its own?
erm.. this is a topic exclusively for the live game. or do you mean to make a new forum?

na i just meant the "commentary" was almost a big enough part of the live game that it was distracting to the game engine conversation to have it here.

I as yet havnt tried 1.9 branch ill do this soon.

vector · Post by **vector** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:33 pm

19 test.
Great love it.
first impression:
I think there are too many comments.. quicker than i can read them( with the bottom right scroll widget i can slow speed down?) this however then becomes too slow for the game just too many passes me thinks.
However the effect of having comments is great and the icons do add to the "eye candy" so I now understand a little better what I need to make.

I dont think commenting every pass is good. Id rather have the scroll bar indicating the def, midfiled, attack battles (like in 1.7) and the comments showing occasional passes but mostly just the major event like, cards, injuries, possesion changes, free kicks,penalty , shots, goals,saves, substitutions, extra time.

did i mention the tendancy bar

must have it! its the best indicator for how the game is going i have come across. I realise howver this may cause an "out of sync" appearance with the comments. for eg if "fred passes to bill" and we know that both bill and fred should be up londons def end but in fact the tendancy bar is up uniteds def end...But I think we can ignore that if it happens.

BTW
are you intending on having :
half time and substitutions?
user activated sunstitutions during game?
if so how are you going to allow changes or substitions?
just show and allow access to the player1 view?
is that what the pause is for ?

Post by **gyboth** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:26 am

vector wrote:them( with the bottom right scroll widget i can slow speed down?) this however then becomes too slow for the game just too many passes me thinks.

yes, the spinbutton's for game speed.

I dont think commenting every pass is good. Id rather have the scroll bar indicating the def, midfiled, attack battles (like in 1.7) and the comments showing occasional passes but mostly just the major event like, cards, injuries, possesion changes, free kicks,penalty , shots, goals,saves, substitutions, extra time.

yes, i was thinking about this, too. wouldn't be a great problem to show only every 3rd pass or so.

did i mention the tendancy bar
must have it! its the best indicator for how the game is going i have come across. I realise howver this may cause an "out of sync" appearance with the comments. for eg if "fred passes to bill" and we know that both bill and fred should be up londons def end but in fact the tendancy bar is up uniteds def end...But I think we can ignore that if it happens.

tendency bar's a problem, because the way scoring chances are calculated now is like this: the team in possession can have a scoring chance no matter how long it is in possession (the probability gets higher, of course, the longer the team's in possession). so a team could have a scoring chance right after getting possession (erm.. does this sound right?). now how should we find out where the tendency bar should be? it can't show where the ball is anymore, that's for sure.

half time and substitutions?

yes.

user activated sunstitutions during game?

yes.

if so how are you going to allow changes or substitions?
just show and allow access to the player1 view?
is that what the pause is for ?

exactly. you press the button. the live game stops and your current settings (style, structure, first 11 players) are stored. the main window gets sensitive and you can do your changes. then you press pause again and the live game continues or you get an error message if you done something illegal, e.g. 5 subs or so.

gyözö

vector · Post by **vector** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:08 am

damn it ate my post...or i think i closed it without submitting

tired ... tooo tired to type.

Sounds fantastic all of it ...except tendancy bar...lets re think what I would really love to see (and in fact the tendancy bar tended to look like this) is a ball position indicator.. ie where it is in the pitch..def mid fwd.

In my state machine (which has many holes) I was trying to get to this point. the position of the ball determines everything. Who can pass it, wether you can shoot or not etc plus what "strengths" you use to calculate outcomes. their def my attack their mid my mid their attack my def etc. that way you get neat battles within battles. and it really makes the manager account for his team setup.

but I ramble

Post by **gyboth** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:27 pm

hm.. i didn't have a value for midfield until now; only for attack and defend. but it does make sense. i'm going to try and implement it. i don't have a lot of time and energy, though, since the holidays are over

gyözö

vector · Post by **vector** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:02 am

a simple language calrification so we know what we are talking about

in live_game.c
** The smaller this number, the smaller the probability of
many extra minutes after 90 or 45 minutes. */
#define CONSTANT_LIVE_GAME_BREAK_BASE 0.6
in this context its corrent but id just like to clear up so we know what we are talking about later

The extra minutes after a match (to make up for injuries or other reasons) is referred to as "stoppage time". it is sometimes called (even i did it)" injury time" but injury time is only a percent of this.

In cup competitions "extra-time" is often played if the score is still level.
Depending on the competition this can be two full 15-minute periods or the newer silver-goal rule (if one of the teams are ahead after the first period of extra-time, the match ends)

If the score is still level after extra time (30 mins) Then it's down to "penalty shoot out"

My Q
do you need icons for:
stoppage time
extra time
penalty shootout
I dont think you use silver goal (which is rubbish IMHO anyway) so thats good

Post by **gyboth** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:11 am

vector wrote:#define CONSTANT_LIVE_GAME_BREAK_BASE 0.6

all right, this means injury time then; or stoppage time. not extra time, of course.

do you need icons for:
stoppage time
extra time
penalty shootout
I dont think you use silver goal (which is rubbish IMHO anyway) so thats good

i don't think we need icons. i mean, for extra time and penalty shoot-out (the beginning of it) we can use a whistle; no need for a special icon. as for injury time, the user can see anyway if the game continues some minutes after 90 or 45 mins. and your icon for injury time would be great for announcing substitutions. and no, i don't use silver or golden goal. all rubbish.

gyözö